Swaay co-founder, Trish Schmitt, sits with Susan LaScala Wood, a co-creator of www.over30under30.com (read as: Over "30 under 30"), an online conversation with experienced (ie, nearing or over 50) ad industry creatives about getting older in the business, how the industry has changed, and how they've persevered. The two first met in ad school in Atlanta, where they were working hard to put their portfolios together. Fast forward 20+ years later and they've been reunited as freelance partners, posting about their work days on their shared Instagram account, bossywomen.biz, and supporting each other in their other creative endeavors.
TRISH: First of all, congrats. This project is being talked about quite a bit. How did it come about?
SUSAN: Thanks…and somewhat randomly, really. It all started when I saw a post by another writer -- my now partner in this, Rob Rooney. He had written an article that touched upon the topic of awards lists – and the ageist nature of the ones specifically titled "30 under 30" and "40 under 40". I had written to him saying the article really resonated with me and half-joked that we should put a list together that was titled "50 Over 50". Next thing you know, we set up a meeting to actually do it. Of course, we had to figure out what "it" was exactly. Such lists actually do exist. We knew we wanted to keep it focused on the creative department. But I think our initial thoughts were much less optimistic in tone. We considered highlighting people who essentially got pushed out of the industry and were forced to do other things – whether it was teach or open a coffee shop. But ultimately we decided to switch our focus to people who were persevering in advertising or another creative field, featuring stories that would be inspiring to us and give more hope than despair.
TRISH: How did you choose the people to highlight? There does seem to be quite a few more men than women.
SUSAN: Well, not-so-surprisingly, in an industry that's known for being ageist, not every older creative is comfortable talking about age. And I'd say this was especially true of female creatives we reached out to, especially at first. A lot more (though definitely not all) of the responses that fit into the category of "I love what you're doing but I just don't want to out myself" were from women. But while this may be disappointing, it's actually not surprising to me at all – especially as a woman who's experienced various iterations of judgement throughout my career. I totally get it, and I don't judge their discomfort.
Not only do women have the "baby thing" held against us, our grey hairs are somehow more offensive. And obviously this is not exclusive to the ad industry, but it's true to just about every industry that exists.
That said, I think the more amazing people who joined the conversation, the more that conversation extended offline into offices (and bars), the more women and men were not just less worried about sharing their own stories and perspectives, but they were actually quite excited and enthusiastic. While we'd started our process by reaching out to talented creatives we both knew personally, soon people started approaching us, nominating themselves or someone else – and yes, that group included women. There was a palpable shift where an inspired community mentality began to replace individual fear.
TRISH: Do you think most older people in advertising have been affected by ageism.
SUSAN: I do. Though most of the time I don't think it's overt. These days, employers and recruiters are saavy enough to know it's not exactly cool (or legal) to make decisions based on age. So the way we are affected tends to be much more subtle: agencies choose a cheaper (ie, younger) candidate. Or we're not given the juicier projects. Or maybe we're a better creative than we are a manager…and we find there's no longer a place for us. I do think it's interesting, perhaps even telling, that a LOT of the talented older creatives we talked to are now freelancing. There are only so many ECD and CCO jobs out there, so that's likely one reason. But another is that freelance allows creatives to actually create…while getting paid their worth, most of the time anyway. And with so much less politics and BS – two things a person can definitely grow tired of after 20+ years.
TRISH: Overall, did you get a sense that women's experiences differed from men's?
SUSAN: No…and hell, yes. There are certainly many commonalities among the genders as we've gotten older in the industry together. The introduction of the digital age that sent clients and employers into a Snapchat-user hiring frenzy being a big one. You'll find plenty on this topic in many of the interviews. But there were definitely some differences as well. Many of the women we featured were total rock stars, creatives who were icons to me. And even though most of them would say ageism, to their knowledge, hasn't overtly affected them, sexism inevitably comes into play.
Nearly every woman who is a parent voiced the extra tough challenges that came along in their 30's and 40's. Advertising is not an easy place to be a mom (not just as opposed to being single…but, yes, even as opposed to being a dad). There's a feeling that we can't talk about our kids without fear of judgement that we can't possibly be great at both. On the site, Kimberly Harrington talked about an employer she loves to work with, who actually gets it right:
"Aside from the work itself, which I love, it's just incredible what a relief it is to work with all women including other mothers. It's incredible what a relief it is to not apologize for your life or not have to lie about needing to pick up a kid at school. I can't emphasize enough how much mothers are trained to hide or apologize for their lives. It's gross."
I couldn't have summed it up better.
Of course, there are also female creatives in the industry who do not have kids. But even they are often penalized – for simply being child-bearing age. It makes many bosses wary.
I think sexism has also come into play when it comes to promotions. I've seen many men at my own agencies get promoted before women who were at least as talented. One female creative I know was given an "apprenticeship" instead of an ACD title, while no guy at the agency had ever had to take that pre-step. When this sort of thing happens, it puts women on a slower track, which certainly has a cumulative effect as she ages. I also think employers are less forgiving of a women's perceived weaknesses – this is yet another thing I've both witnessed and experienced time and time again.
TRISH: Is there anything within the stories that surprised you the most?
SUSAN: Nothing that "surprised" me per se. What I was most affected by, though, was the incredible compassion that emanated from all of these talented people. As they share their perspectives on challenging issues within the industry, it's not purely a bitch session, and it's not a "look at me, aren't I amazing" promo piece. It's an honest conversation, fearless and real. And while there are some incredible pieces written by women, it's not exclusively a gender thing – I think both genders can relate to, empathize with and be inspired by each other's stories. It wasn't just women who were affected by Jane Evan's angry, honest, powerful female-centric words, including (maybe even especially) the ones about menopause.
TRISH: What are you hoping will come out of this?
SUSAN: What's been particularly rewarding about the project is hearing from people who've been struggling at this time in their career, thanking us for putting the site out there. I think it's helped them feel valid that yes, the industry has changed and no they are not alone. It also encouraged them to look inward and really think about what they are passionate about. If it's still advertising, great, keep learning, keep growing, keep going. But if it's not, maybe it's time to get out – and maybe that's not such a bad thing.
But, I hope more comes out of it than just self-reflection and a conversation. I hope creative leaders start to think about and actually implement solutions. And I hope those solutions take off as fast and furiously as the open office plan (for the record, I am NOT a fan – but damn, that concept really stuck). Personally, I think one of the most intriguing ideas that was tossed out was essentially creating a new position called "Very Senior Creative" (credit to the brilliant Madeleine Morris for the term, though others touched upon the topic). This would be someone who is not managing, but creating and mentoring. And I really do think there are plenty of people who would be thrilled to have the position, even if it would pay less than their last Creative Director job. Maybe they could get promoted to Very, Very Senior Creative. That would be amazing to see. I also would love to see a shift in the way we all view older creatives – yes, especially women. Hitting 40 should be a celebration, not something we should feel we have to hide. I mean, look at the alternative! I know the more interviews I read, the more pride welled up inside me that I am a part of this incredible, inspiring group.
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For decades, women have been unknowingly suffering from PSD and intergenerational trauma, but now Dr. Valerie Rein wants women to reclaim their power through mind, body and healing tools.
As women, no matter how many accomplishments we have or how successful we look on the outside, we all occasionally hear that nagging internal voice telling us to do more. We criticize ourselves more than anyone else and then throw ourselves into the never-ending cycle of self-care, all in effort to save ourselves from crashing into this invisible internal wall. According to psychologist, entrepreneur and author, Dr. Valerie Rein, these feelings are not your fault and there is nothing wrong with you— but chances are you definitely suffering from Patriarchy Stress Disorder.
Patriarchy Stress Disorder (PSD) is defined as the collective inherited trauma of oppression that forms an invisible inner barrier to women's happiness and fulfillment. The term was coined by Rein who discovered a missing link between trauma and the effects that patriarchal power structures have had on certain groups of people all throughout history up until the present day. Her life experience, in addition to research, have led Rein to develop a deeper understanding of the ways in which men and women are experiencing symptoms of trauma and stress that have been genetically passed down from previously oppressed generations.
What makes the discovery of this disorder significant is that it provides women with an answer to the stresses and trauma we feel but cannot explain or overcome. After being admitted to the ER with stroke-like symptoms one afternoon, when Rein noticed the left side of her body and face going numb, she was baffled to learn from her doctors that the results of her tests revealed that her stroke-like symptoms were caused by stress. Rein was then left to figure out what exactly she did for her clients in order for them to be able to step into the fullness of themselves that she was unable to do for herself. "What started seeping through the tears was the realization that I checked all the boxes that society told me I needed to feel happy and fulfilled, but I didn't feel happy or fulfilled and I didn't feel unhappy either. I didn't feel much of anything at all, not even stress," she stated.
Photo Courtesy of Dr. Valerie Rein
This raised the question for Rein as to what sort of hidden traumas women are suppressing without having any awareness of its presence. In her evaluation of her healing methodology, Rein realized that she was using mind, body and trauma healing tools with her clients because, while they had never experienced a traumatic event, they were showing the tell-tale symptoms of trauma which are described as a disconnect from parts of ourselves, body and emotions. In addition to her personal evaluation, research at the time had revealed that traumatic experiences are, in fact, passed down genetically throughout generations. This was Rein's lightbulb moment. The answer to a very real problem that she, and all women, have been experiencing is intergenerational trauma as a result of oppression formed under the patriarchy.
Although Rein's discovery would undoubtably change the way women experience and understand stress, it was crucial that she first broaden the definition of trauma not with the intention of catering to PSD, but to better identify the ways in which trauma presents itself in the current generation. When studying psychology from the books and diagnostic manuals written exclusively by white men, trauma was narrowly defined as a life-threatening experience. By that definition, not many people fit the bill despite showing trauma-like symptoms such as disconnections from parts of their body, emotions and self-expression. However, as the field of psychology has expanded, more voices have been joining the conversations and expanding the definition of trauma based on their lived experience. "I have broadened the definition to say that any experience that makes us feel unsafe psychically or emotionally can be traumatic," stated Rein. By redefining trauma, people across the gender spectrum are able to find validation in their experiences and begin their journey to healing these traumas not just for ourselves, but for future generations.
While PSD is not experienced by one particular gender, as women who have been one of the most historically disadvantaged and oppressed groups, we have inherited survival instructions that express themselves differently for different women. For some women, this means their nervous systems freeze when faced with something that has been historically dangerous for women such as stepping into their power, speaking out, being visible or making a lot of money. Then there are women who go into fight or flight mode. Although they are able to stand in the spotlight, they pay a high price for it when their nervous system begins to work in a constant state of hyper vigilance in order to keep them safe. These women often find themselves having trouble with anxiety, intimacy, sleeping or relaxing without a glass of wine or a pill. Because of this, adrenaline fatigue has become an epidemic among high achieving women that is resulting in heightened levels of stress and anxiety.
"For the first time, it makes sense that we are not broken or making this up, and we have gained this understanding by looking through the lens of a shared trauma. All of these things have been either forbidden or impossible for women. A woman's power has always been a punishable offense throughout history," stated Rein.
Although the idea of having a disorder may be scary to some and even potentially contribute to a victim mentality, Rein wants people to be empowered by PSD and to see it as a diagnosis meant to validate your experience by giving it a name, making it real and giving you a means to heal yourself. "There are still experiences in our lives that are triggering PSD and the more layers we heal, the more power we claim, the more resilience we have and more ability we have in staying plugged into our power and happiness. These triggers affect us less and less the more we heal," emphasized Rein. While the task of breaking intergenerational transmission of trauma seems intimidating, the author has flipped the negative approach to the healing journey from a game of survival to the game of how good can it get.
In her new book, Patriarchy Stress Disorder: The Invisible Barrier to Women's Happiness and Fulfillment, Rein details an easy system for healing that includes the necessary tools she has sourced over 20 years on her healing exploration with the pioneers of mind, body and trauma resolution. Her 5-step system serves to help "Jailbreakers" escape the inner prison of PSD and other hidden trauma through the process of Waking Up in Prison, Meeting the Prison Guards, Turning the Prison Guards into Body Guards, Digging the Tunnel to Freedom and Savoring Freedom. Readers can also find free tools on Rein's website to help aid in their healing journey and exploration.
"I think of the book coming out as the birth of a movement. Healing is not women against men– it's women, men and people across the gender spectrum, coming together in a shared understanding that we all have trauma and we can all heal."